Our City, Our Podcast

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We know our services and programs impact you, so let's talk about them. Together we'll learn from the people behind the scenes and get to know our city a little better. From the City of Winnipeg, this is Our City, Our Podcast.

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This podcast is recorded in Treaty One territory, the home and traditional lands of the Anishanabe, Ininew, and Dakota peoples. And the National homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge that our drinking water comes from Shoal Lake 40 First Nation in Treaty Three territory.

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I'm Rachel

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and I'm Natalie.

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And today we're going to be talking to Mike old Chuck. He's the emergency management coordinator with Winnipeg fire Paramedic Services, we're going to talk to him about his favorite disaster movies, why he likes watching them and maybe why his family doesn't really like watching them with him.

0:48
He's got some pretty important details here. You know, things you want to know to make sure that you keep you in your safe.

0:54
Alright, thanks for joining us, Mike. You're here with us in the podcast studio. So can we declare that we are free of any major disasters right now at this present moment?

1:06
Sort of? Is yes and no, a good answer. For all intents and purposes right now, all is good. But in this world, things can change on a dime with a text, email or phone call. So we will say fingers crossed for the next hour. It's all good.

1:21
Fingers crossed, indeed.

1:22
We better get going. I have cancelled everything for the next hour. So I have no control over any of that. But anyhow.

1:27
Well, you know, we're gonna get into some pretty important work on this one. You know, starting with the real hard hitting questions. Do you watch disaster movies?

1:37
I definitely watch disaster movies. I would say that my family probably wishes perhaps that I didn't. Being in this discipline or profession. I will probably sit there and provide commentary throughout the entire movie have that's not close to real. That's a really good lesson. Remember that? So I usually probably end up just watching them by myself.

1:57
That's fair. That's fair. What is your favorite disaster movie?

2:00
Oh, that is such a difficult question to answer to be honest for me. I will say probably Twister is one of my favorites. It depends on the week in the day, though, that sometimes I bounced back and forth. And you know, Volcano. Dante's Peak. There's lots of great disaster movies that are out there. We have day after tomorrow.

2:19
Yeah. Oh, that's a good one. We don't really have to worry about Dante's Peak happening here.

2:24
No, fortunately.

2:25
But Day After Tomorrow, it feels like regular winter.

2:28
Well, hey, yeah, you know, if someone were to set their disaster movie here in Winnipeg, what if you know, we have a disaster consultant here? Would you suggest for the plot? You know, I'm assuming we get at least one tornado, right.

2:43
Tornado. Yeah, we undertake work in the city called hazard risk and vulnerability assessments to determine what hazards that may impact us here. So severe weather is definitely one that we face, we are unique climate in that we can go from minus 40 to plus 40. So obviously, that's quite the swing and quite the range. So extreme cold to extreme heat. We are at the bottom or at the base of two rivers, the junction at the forks, the Red River flowing northwards, and the Assiniboine River flowing from the west. So flooding is one of the most significant and salient hazards that we have faced as a city throughout our history.

3:20
But no zombies, right?

3:22
No, way to zombies.

3:25
Hopefully not. After I retire.

3:28
Oh, tell us a little about the reality of your of your work.

3:34
Sounds good. So I think yeah, on a day to day basis, it can be quite variable, and it can change quite a bit. Flexibility, and adaptability are key to our work, you never quite know when something may take place or may occur for an emergency or disaster perspective. Some of them we do hazards like flooding, generally speaking, we know that they're coming and we can prepare. And we've got a great group of city staff in our water and waste department that focus on that hazard and kind of structure our response to that and some of the actions that we take to keep citizens and property in the environment safe in that regard. But there are some like severe weather where, you know, we may have minimal warning that we get impacted by something, whether that's flooding rains or you know, significant windstorm and those kinds of things. So, in those instances, you definitely have to be prepared and at the ready at all times.

4:21
Now, Mike, I really wouldn't say this about everyone, but I mean this a lot. In other chats we've had, you know, you really have been on a life trajectory for this type of work. And I want to share with the audience here it's it starts with with the town you are from you grew up near the mining disaster site of Frank slide in Alberta. Yes?
4:45
That is correct. Yes, I was born here. And then my dad got transferred for work out to start with Southern Alberta. So I grew up in the community of Lethbridge. And at that time, my mom was teaching international students so we spent a lot of time getting into a suburban and driving around Southern Alberta getting to see the countryside and some of the sights of southern Alberta, one of which was Frank slide. So as a little tyke tagging along on those adventures, just kind of got exposed to that and appreciated kind of the physical geography element of things as well as kind of that disaster site. So learning about the Frank slide, as a little kid, I was just really intrigued by that, and, you know, got as much as I could for reading materials and those kinds of things. And then beyond that, the Titanic as well was another disaster event, not that I am nearly that old from the early 1900s. But in 1985, when I was a kid, is when I think it was Dr. Robert Ballard discovered the Titanic or the location of the wreck. And so as a kid, that was something that got really big for the scholastic books, sorry, if I can speak accompanies the books that came out when, when I was a kid. And so again, something that just really piqued my interest. And I would read about that. So yeah, that's kind of how I really acquired I guess, an interest in disasters at a really young age kind of thing.

6:01
So what brought you out east and ultimately into your role here in the city?

6:09
My dad actually got transferred back. So being from Winnipeg, Manitoba, originally, family was all here. So we moved back in the 80s, mid 80s, kind of thing. And that was the path that brought us back here. And then workwise going through school, and all of that really didn't necessarily have myself lined up to go into emergency management. Kind of, I would say, organically may be found my way back there doing an undergrad degree in geography, that was able to take some courses at the University of Manitoba in hazards and disasters and those kinds of things and kind of repeat that interest that I had as a kid, and ended up doing or staying at the U of M to do a master's degree in natural resource management, focusing on the outcomes from the 1997, Red River flood. And so that was something very kind of really gained an interest in hazards and disasters, and was fortunate to be able to turn that into a career, which is pretty awesome. Not that I ever want to emergencies and disasters to happen. Because generally speaking, there can be poor outcomes or negative outcomes for people. And you never want to see people get affected negatively by something. But by the same token, it is pretty neat to work in this profession. And something that I have a passion for in emergencies and disasters, and to do that on a daily basis is pretty rewarding.

7:22
And maybe you can help us understand this because it sounds it sounds like a almost impossible feat, the idea that you would manage a disaster. What does that look like? How do you get that done?

7:35
Oh, my goodness, there's a lot to that. So really, I think one of the core and key elements of our work in emergency management, especially over the city's partnerships, and connectivity, so we've got a great team, in our office, there's a group of us that work on this, some have gone through undergrad degrees, focusing on disaster emergency management is a great program out of Brandon University called the applied disaster and emergency studies program. But again, taking that kind of learning and that knowledge. And then working with all of the city staff, we have a lot of great city staff that work here and are subject matter experts in various areas. So part of our role in emergency management is kind of that networking and that connectivity. So perhaps, have an understanding of many things, but not necessarily the depth of expertise. That's where we rely on those departmental experts and those kinds of things. So then creating that environment where if something happens, we can bring them together, and then leverage that expertise. So I talked about water and waste and the expertise that they have in flooding, and you know, working with them when there are floods going on. We're fortunate in the city to have excellent emergency services, our police, fire and emergency medical services. So if there is a emergency or disaster, oftentimes that will start with a call to 911 and a response from our emergency responders that are there helping the citizens and then our role is kind of that higher level. So the city has something called an Emergency Operations Centre. So our office is responsible for that. And then bringing in all of the key city departments that may have a role to play in a disaster. So again, it's that, that networking, that connectivity, we work very much with the provincial government, the federal government, non government organizations like the Canadian Red Cross. So again, when you talk about an emergency or disaster, depending on the size and scale that it is, having that connectivity and those linkages to all of those different partners who all may each have a role to play in supporting the people that are affected by that disaster emergency is kind of a core function of our work.

9:33
Right? That makes sense. So help me understand how planning evolves over a period of time, like, say, I would imagine fears of something like the cold war might not be as pertinent today, but that also that era also set up some of those foundational pieces for how we prepare and plan for the threats of today. Can you tell us more about that?

9:56
Yeah. So from emergency management as kind of a profession or a discipline it started in that Cold War era with, you know, literal bunkers and the risk of you know, bombing and those kinds of things. And so some of the legislation, even if you look to it still has some of the themes from that era into the legislation. But over time, it's kind of evolved with more of a focus on natural hazards and disasters and kind of away from that post war, Cold War type of risk kind of thing as the global climate are on that has changed. And we've had, again, with climate changing climate change, and increasing frequency and intensity of storms, and hazards and those kinds of things. So definitely, the discipline has evolved to include natural disasters as a big focus. And we've seen some significant impacts over time. For us here in the City of Winnipeg, one of the key things for us was the 1950 flood. So we had over 100,000 Winnipeggers that were evacuated in that flood, many homes were damaged, by floodwaters in that, and that led to the construction of the Red River floodway, that was completed in 1968. And that has significantly saved the city. And in emergency management, there's an element of it called mitigation. And that's a wonderful prime example of mitigation. Where looking at that hazard, the hazard of flooding, and then constructing something that reduces or minimizes the risk. So the existence of the floodway has saved the city of Winnipeg multiple billions of dollars in damages since the 1950. Flood, most notably in the 1997 flood.

11:29
And you've really walked us into the next question I wanted to ask, which was about this this kind of cost benefit analysis that the the floodway is it's great example. Is it? Is it something that you're constantly applying to your work?

11:40
Definitely, yeah, it's a very important piece, I think had read something out of the United States that had said for every $6, or sorry, for every dollar spent on mitigation, you can save $6 in costs, re: be it losses, or those kinds of things. So, again, it's a variable, depending on what the hazard it is that you're mitigating, and the measures that you're taking kind of thing, but a general rule of thumb, and we look at that floodway, as a prime example, if we didn't have the floodway, you know, you get a significant flood on the river River, then, you know, there's a lot of property along the river in the city and infrastructure that's going to be affected by that. So most definitely cost benefit analysis. And the experts that do that is very important to this work.

12:20
That, you know, and here we are talking about major infrastructure, but it's not even just always infrastructure, these dollars in.

12:26
100%. Yeah, and a core piece to all of this is the impact on people. So, you know, what can we do to reduce the impact on people is kind of a key focal point to this, because if people aren't affected, you know, you can have infrastructure affected and, you know, rural land, and those kinds of things that do have an impact, but part of our work as well as to minimize that disruption and impact on people. Because there can be some very significant impacts for people longer term, depending on the type of hazard that occurs, and you know, the effects on them psychologically, in those kinds of things. So I think it's very important for our work to consider that and figure out okay, what are the mechanisms and partners that we need to work with to help people through if they have experienced an emergency or disaster.

13:07
Right, you already talked a little bit about the Emergency Operations Centre and, and like getting together there to sort of brainstorm how to address these possible like impacts on humans. This might be a good opportunity for our first mythbuster, you have the committee, but you don't mean in a bunker, deep under City Hall. Do you like the like in Batman?

13:31
No, with 16 foot concrete walls, and you know, fancy cars down there and super computer systems? No, no, we do meet in the lower level of City Hall, but not that far down. That is where our EOC is located. So yeah, we meet on a monthly basis, we've got a group called the Emergency Management Coordination Committee. And there's a representative there from all departments, some have multiple representatives. And again, that's where we get together. And we talk about emergency disaster management issues, some of the key things that our Office of Emergency Management is working on, where we link to departments, departments also provide updates with respect to some of the great work that they're doing, that intersects with our emergency management work, training and drills, as well we do exercises. So that's one of the key pieces to this work is practice. You know, building those plans out, and then testing them to see if what we've written actually works in the application of an event occurring. So I had mentioned flexibility and adaptability being kind of two key features of this work. No two floods are the same, no two poor air quality events whether it's coming from wildfire smoke, extreme heat event, extreme cold, that kind of thing. There's always a little bit of nuance, perhaps to where it occurs, who it affects those kinds of things. So in the moment of something occurring, to have that ability to be flexible and adaptable. So conducting exercises, is something that helps with that. The connectivity and the networking partnerships, knowing people, exercises enable us to have those conversations and build those relationships beforehand to hopefully help things go as smooth as they can, when in a real event happens kind of things so that we, perhaps we're not meeting somebody for the first time when something has gone wrong, and we're trying to manage that issue or circumstance.

15:20
Walk us through that. I think all of us would recognize something like a fire drill or or maybe your school did tornado drills. But it's a little more complicated when when you guys get into into your drill space, is there is there an example you can share what that looks like?

15:36
In November of 2023, we had something called Exercise Dark Horizon. So we as the city coordinated that working with partners within government, the provincial government, federal government, non government, as well as a key player in all this as well as industry. So in that instance, the scenario involved a train derailment, and it went from the outset of train derailment call to 911 first response from our police, fire and emergency medical services, all the way through to engaging with the industry with the rail providers. So we have some really important partnerships and linkages with them. So they were engaged and participated in that. We had again, as I mentioned, the provincial government was there, the federal government and our city team, we had a good contingent of city staff that were there through our Emergency Management Coordination Committee. So the idea is to kind of walk through that type of a scenario. So if we had a train derailment, you know, who needs to be engaged? Who would be there? What structures, what systems? What processes? Are we setting up in order to essentially problem solve and manage that event and deal with some of the outcomes that come from that? So are there evacuations other people affected? How do we support them? Do we need to work with our City Emergency Social Services team? So we have a great group of people in the city, that are part of our emergency Social Services team, and their role is to support the citizens of Winnipeg. So do we look at activating a reception center, where we can have people go to temporarily if they are displaced from their homes, to help provide comforts to them? You know, whether that's food, clothing, shelter, those kinds of things?

17:05
Yeah, I was there actually. And part of part of my my job, and my team's job was to, like, look at how can we best communicate all these things to the public, because even if, you know, we have set up a, like reception center for evacuees, they might not even know that it exists, they might not know that there's a shuttle that takes them there, they might not know that they can access all the things they need there. And they might stick around their home a little bit too long. Get exposed to things that they shouldn't be exposed to put themselves at risk, put first responders at risk. So all really important to communicate well with the public. So yeah, I thought that was a really interesting drill.

17:44
Yeah, that's a great point in that, again, for us, I'm not a communications expert. So we may have some content and subject matter that we need to get out. So for us, that's where that connectivity in that networking, that linkage to corporate communications and your ability to have that expertise. And to get that message out to the public is critically important in an emergency or disaster events. So again, that's that piece of, you know, the strength of team. And for us as a city, we've got a lot of different experts in a lot of different areas. So bringing everybody together and working collectively to support citizens, either directly or through maintaining some of the critical services that we do provide to them.

18:21
What do you say Winnipeggers are ready for that kind of emergency? Or would you say we're have resilient people?

18:29
I would say that we are an extremely resilient people here in the City of Winnipeg. And I had mentioned earlier that even the temperature extremes, right, we look at that from minus 40 to plus 40. And the variability that you have there. So it's literally the the opposites from one end of the spectrum to the other type of things. So beyond that we have weathered and gone through many storms, severe storms that we get coming through here in the prairies, floods, again, that I've spoken to. In addition, wildfire smoke is something that we've experienced a number of the past few years. So that's a bit of not necessarily an emerging hazard per se, but I think something that we're seeing a bit more impact from potentially so know for our office, that's something that we've been working on, just recognizing with climate change, and again, how bad the wildfire situation was across Canada last year that there are impacts on people's health and on the citizens of Winnipeg. So what we can do to provide support and further work on that it's something that we look at.

19:28
you know, we want to set people up with the news they can use and it's important understand how is that if and when emergencies hit. How is your team in touch with with people who are affected? One of the questions is can the city access the the alert ready system those texts and alerts on on your computer or radio?

19:51
Yep, definitely. So think, as Rachel spoke to earlier, our alliance and our linkage with our corporate communications team, there is no one single way to get a message out. I think it's going to be multiple platforms. One key message or multiple key messages kind of thing, but going in many different platforms and reaching out in as far and wide as we can. So whether that's through city social, again, many opportunities through websites, you referenced the alert ready. So we do have linkage and access to that. So we talked partnerships, that's working with our partners in the province. So they are the ones that manage that particular emergency alerting system. So we have connections there. And so we would reach out to them if there was a need to send an emergency alert to the citizens of Winnipeg, and we would work with them to have that message sent out. Again, I think a big piece as well, and takeaway for citizens is looking at your family unit, and whatever that may be given the variability across the city. And if you do get a message, that ability to reach out and share that message, again, whether that's older adults in your life, reaching out and connecting with them to make sure that they've heard the messaging your neighbors, perhaps whether you have a younger neighbor, or an elderly neighbor, or someone that you're connected with, just ensuring and touching base and making sure that they're getting the information and if your circumstances good, working to help them.
21:15
Great, great. Let's go back to our Winnipeg disaster movie. We want everyone listening to be the characters that survive. So set us up what do we need to survive in our Disaster Movie?

21:28
Sounds good? Well, it all depends on the hazard and the subject of that disaster movie. But no, regardless, we prepare for all hazards is some of the work that we do. So on our website to winnipeg.ca/emergency preparedness, we offer a course for the public called Ready Winnipeg. So that's one of the pieces that citizens can go to to learn about some of the hazards that we face in Winnipeg, and then some of the actions that they can take to prepare themselves. So whether that's doing a plan specific to their family circumstance, maybe you have pets, ensuring that you have some additional pet food in your emergency kit. Other pieces, like if you have any critical medications that you rely on having a little bit of extra in that kit, some of your key documents, water, some canned goods, and a can opener critically important in case the power is out. So again, yeah, if you go to winnipeg.ca/emergency preparedness, Ready Winnipeg, there's a course there that that citizens can access that will provide some more information.

22:29
When you're talking about about your drills, you know, if someone walking was walking by would would it have have looked like a true disaster to them?

22:38
In that circumstance, so the example I gave with the exercise dark horizon in November of 2023, likely not. So in that instance, we did something called a tabletop exercise. So that's where straightforward, we're all at a table kind of thing. So not necessarily reflective of the reality of a disaster situation where there is going to be a site with impacts and those kinds of things. So you can, or we can go to higher levels of exercises, that would be functional or full scale. And that's where you're actually simulating something and you've got our excellent first response resources that are there and on site and doing things. So for that particular exercise, we didn't do that. We are holding an exercise where we have held an exercise related to the establishment of a clean air center. So reception center set up and that kind of thing. So in that example, we're partnering with the Canadian Red Cross. And we'll actually functionally be setting up a site. So that's where it will be doing registration and inquiry with some mock citizens to kind of simulate what the flow through of that would be in an actual event. So again, when it comes to exercises, there's sort of a scale, from drill at the base level through tabletop, where you're talking things through to functional and full scale where you're actually doing hands on in a simulated situation.

23:59
Very cool. Interesting. Yeah. Thanks again for joining us today. The last question is something we ask everybody share something about Winnipeg, you wish everyone knew it can be work related, it doesn't have to be.

24:09
Again, just reflecting on us being a city affected by flooding in the past and the existence of the floodway. And kind of what a great example of mitigation, that infrastructure is, if anybody happens to be down with the forks, walking around, there's some really neat markers down on the forks to talk about the 1950 flood and what the flood level was there in the 1997 flood and what that was, or if you happen to be at a place, say like the Children's Museum, they have some of the markers in there as well. And it's, for me, at least with an interest in that particular hazard. It's somewhat surreal in some respects to stand there and go wow, this is an actual event. Without that infrastructure in place, you know, the water would be this high on on you kind of thing. So I think, for me, at least it's a really interesting thing about our city to build to reflect on on that when you're down with the forks are in and around that area.

24:58
We would be a lot worse off without that infrastructure, that's for sure.

25:00
Most definitely. And the last piece for me would be just, again, take a look at that website winnipeg.ca/emergency preparedness. And if there's an opportunity for citizens to kind of look at their personal circumstance and just even think things through, if an event happens, having given it some thought beforehand, you don't have to necessarily have everything figured out or every answer. But yeah, that ability to look at your personal circumstance and your family unit or your friend unit and those kinds of things, and run through some of those considerations. And that way, if an event happens, if you're in as good a spot as possible, then hopefully you can work to help somebody else being a good, safe spot.

25:38
On the next podcast, we're joined by Murray Peterson, Heritage Officer here at the City of Winnipeg.

25:43
Yeah, we've always heard that Winnipeg is the gateway to the west. But we'll see how that plays out in terms of our apartment blocks, and our schools and some of the buildings we still see around the city.

25:56
And before we go out, we'd love to hear from our listeners. What programs and services impact you most. Email us at city-podcast@winnipeg.ca with suggestions for future episodes. Thanks for listening.